From Kashmir, With Words
I had to call her thrice before I could actually get connected with her. The phone network was bad as it was snowing in Kashmir. Yes, I was calling Kashmir. Then I left her a text message to which I never got a reply. Very obviously like a good human being, I thought maybe I was not welcome as a journalist. However, like a good journalist, I never gave up and called again a couple of days later and Bingo! I was connected! And as I spoke to Naseem Shafaie, the first Kashmiri poetess to win Sahitya Akademi Award, it was revealed to me that the “no response” bit had nothing to do with me the scribe.
During the conversation, Ms Shafaie asked for my email id and immediately called out, “Farah, (zaraa ye email le lo) just take this email id.” She later laughed and explained, “I’m very bad at technology you see. I find it difficult to relate to emails and texting.” Later, during the interview, she tells me she doesn’t know how to use credit cards.
But Ms Shafaie the world finds it absolutely easy to relate to the depth and feelings in your poems. Very certainly, your poems have lead women in Kashmir to break the clutches of rusting customs and embrace modernity and technology with grace.
Shruti Kohli: You started writing poetry in
the 1970s. And your poems are focused on issues from a woman’s perspective.
What has changed between then and now when it comes to women in Kashmir, their
status in society and at home?
Naseem Shafaie: Though not many women are
writers, but most women have received education even during my college days.
There was never anything wrong with women studying. Most women have gone to
school and college in Kashmir. But definitely the number has changed...the
number has increased. You have your daughter in school. But if you have a
domestic help, he also has his daughter in school. In fact he is keen to send
his daughter to school. In rural areas we may not have very high numbers but
people are conscious of getting their children, especially girls, educated.
That’s a welcome change.
Shruti: Have you mentioned about
financial liberation of women in any of your poems? Do you look at financial
liberation as an important aspect of female emancipation and individuality?
Ms Shafaie: That is there though I have not exactly
mentioned about finances. If she is known as a person complete in herself, like
I have said in my poems that if she is not a shadow or reflection of a man, then
she should be given respect and freedom in all aspects that includes financial
field also. Being financially independent is an important aspect I feel.
Shruti: Your works have been recognised
and have won awards first the Tagore Literature Award for Na Thsay Na Aks and
now you become the first Kashmiri woman to won the Sahitya Akademi Award. But
when it comes to women in Kashmir, how popular would you say is your work among
them? Do women have access and freedom to such bold stuff? How do men in
Kashmir look at your poems?
Ms Shafaie: I write what comes to my mind.
Over the years, I have written what I have seen around me and what I feel about
it. People like it. They give me the credit. Some have told me they see me as a
role model for the next generation. When I recite my poems on radio and
Doordarshan, they like it, they praise me and say that “you are the one voice
we want among us.”
My poems are about burning issues like missing persons, mothers who have lost
their sons. People, do call to tell me that they easily relate to what I write.
Shruti: As we see, in the Muslim
community in general, “women liberation, financial or otherwise” has only just
begun. We can easily say it’s still a thing of the future. What’s the scenario
in Kashmir when it comes to Muslim women and the community?
Ms Shafaie: Women liberation in Kashmir... I
must say keeping aside the religious aspect of Muslim Sharia etc, the women of
Kashmir as I see are much more liberated and educated and independent in terms
of decision making at home and when she is in field working along with men,
than other Muslim women in the subcontinent. We are much more liberated because
have the decision making power as the lady of the house.
It has slightly come down over the years. But as I look back, our ancestors,
for instance my grandmother had more decision making power at home. She had the
keys to the store, she was taken into confidence for all crucial decisions in
the family. I have seen that many Muslim women in the subcontinent do not enjoy
this kind of freedom. Kashmiri Muslim women have this freedom.
Shruti: What has been your experience as
a career woman? Like you say in the 1970s you were the only woman to go to
mushairas. How do people around you react to your success being a woman?
Ms Shafaie: Initial years were difficult for
me because people around me were patrons of the language and the literature for
instance there were the likes of Rehman Rahi who is a Gyanpith awardee and is
my teacher and many others. But slowly they adjusted me, they accepted me in
the circles. Now they say there is hardly any mushaira or any poetic or
literary meet complete without me.
Shruti: A general belief in some circles
these days is that no matter how much financial liberation happens, a woman
will always remain number two and man will always be number one. What’s your
take on this?
Ms Shafaie: That is there. I agree. Even if
she is financially independent, she contributes to her family, she is not fully
liberated. She is still a “second class citizen”. But yes, change is there. I
see the girls around take the decision of future of their married lives. They
decide to end their marriage all on their own if they are not treated well. I
don’t agree with this thought but of course girls are not ready to take the
stress of family lives. They want that they should be treated nicely and
politely so that they can take the responsibility of a family. But if it is not
done, they go ahead and end the marriage.
Shruti: When did you get your own first
bit of money? Was it pocket money? Or was it in the form of your first salary?
Ms Shafaie: My first bit of money, a princely
amount of rupees five, came from a radio channel when I was a child. I was in
third or fourth standard. I got this money as an award for reading a poem, Main Nanhi Munni Chiriya Hun (I am a
small little bird) from my Urdu book. I got a box of chocolates and five
rupees.
Shruti: How did you handle your
children’s money needs as they grew up? What age did they start getting pocket
money? Or did they ever get pocket money? What did you do towards money
discipline of your kids?
Ms Shafaie: We have never given pocket money
to our son. But all his needs were well taken care of. His school was very
close to our house. My mother-in-law would go to his school with fruits and
food. But after he moved to Delhi in ninth standard, to study at Delhi Public
School, Vasan Kunj, we gave him pocket money. He lived there with friend’s
family so he did not need much money. But yes, we did start giving him pocket
money. But he kept the money with his bhabhi
(sister-in-law). He never spent lavishly though he always had enough money
with him.
Shruti: From your experience, do you
think young women in Kashmir are ambitious enough? Do you see the drive and
spunk in them to get there and achieve heights?
Ms Shafaie: Yes they are. There was a time
when Kashmiri women would study for a teacher’s job or to get an MBBS degree.
They were allowed that much. But now girls go for MPhil, PhD, Engineering,
Civil Services etc and they want to serve outside Kashmir. They are very
ambitious.
Shruti: We have more women these days who
are delaying marriage or choosing to remain single so that they can work
single-mindedly towards achieving their ambitions. Do you think this is in line
with liberation? Or are women being over-ambitious these days?
Ms Shafaie: Yes that’s there. If women are
ambitious and successful, they get handsome salaries, they enjoy freedom, and
there is a delay in marriage. When they are at the best of their careers, it is
very difficult for parents as well as for the girls to get a match of their
choice. Her thinking, her abilities are at its best and you are now
apprehensive that the other person may not be that much evolved. She has come
this far and would not be prepared to leave everything and stay home after
marriage or pick up a mediocre job just to satisfy her desires to be a
professional. Then comes the adjustment with other people in the family other
than the husband may it be with the in-laws or other relatives.... It’s
becoming difficult by the day.
Shruti: A rather philosophical question:
What does money mean to you?
Ms Shafaie: (Laughs) It is a necessary evil....When you have too
much of money, you don’t know exactly what to do, you don’t care. When you do
not have it, you pay for it. But being precise, if you have too much of money
from your parents, then you do not enjoy it and do not value it. I feel that
self-made money, the money you earn through hard work, is the best money to
have. You will definitely enjoy and value this money.
Shruti: If you were to hit a jackpot of a
billion dollars, what would you do with all the money?
Ms Shafaie: I’ll go for shopping. I’m a very
good shopper and sometimes I shop beyond my limits. But no jewellery for
me...no jewellery. I like shopping for clothes.
Shruti: As an individual have you ever
dreamt of being a millionaire or a billionaire? Do you have plans?
Ms Shafaie: In a dream, yes. Why not, yes. (laughs). Even if you don’t have any
resources, your dreams are your own.
RAPID FIRE:
Shruti: Which car do you drive? How many
cars do you own?
Ms Shafaie: We have three cars. I don’t drive
any car because I could never learn how to drive car. I was scared! (Laughs) But yes, when I go out, I’m
mostly in a chauffeur-driven Swift.
Shruti: How many credit cards do you
have? Which one do you use?
Ms Shafaie: Just one and I don’t know how to
use it. It’s a JK bank card.
Shruti: How do you indulge yourself?
Ms Shafaie: I would go to a tourist resort
and write.
Shruti: Your favourite cuisine?
Ms Shafaie: Kashmiri and North Indian.
Shruti: How much was in your first salary
packet?
Ms Shafaie: It was really very much. It was 10,000
rupees. It was in 1982 when I began my career as a teacher.
Shruti: Do you invest? What’s your
preferred mode of investment?
Ms Shafaie: No. I only spend money. (Laughs)
Shruti: What could be the best use of
money according to you?
Ms Shafaie: Give my children whatever I can
give. What I have not enjoyed, I want them to enjoy.
Shruti: How much cash have you got in
your wallet as we talk?
Ms Shafaie: 5000 rupees.
Photo courtesy: IT
